When a Christian talk about Homosexual, they talk as if homosexual conduct is worse than heterosexual sins like a "masher", free sex or divorce. they should consider and takes care of themself first before talking about other other aspecs in this life.
so many priests in the chruch who are as the "opinion leader" become a provocator merely.
they hold the title of theology, but their talks in church just a satire and an insult to other religions. they are making a new stronghold, a new "non-aligned". which they are anti-other religion, anti-homosexual, anti-Islamic, anti-Buddhist, anti-everything but what their book say.
let's take a look at their life, whether they have been doing what they believe?
or they just take it as a shield only to denounce and to colonize the others,
like a dictator.
But sorry, the world is not blind like their book,
dont let such as the incidence of Giordano Bruno happened again in this era.
"go to hell such doctrine and their book"
because so many things in human life that need to observe, the further exploration,
not only from the outside but from the inside.
because until now there is still no definitive answer, to answer any human character for example, where it comes from fear? why do many people can be friends with one? while others can not? why many people like to smoke while some people are not at all?
even simple questions like this can not be answered properly, more over to talk about the human heart which is deep as the ocean.
their book can not answer this. all immersed in the word of "Secret".
well ok, theology is "reasoning or discussion concerning the Deity",
the science of God. as God says
"Don't worship any other god. GOD--his name is The-Jealous-One--is a jealous God.
message" exodus 34:14
he wants us to follow in the steps of Jews Deity, do not worship other Deity.
huh....! this is politic.
then i dont wanna believe in him anymore. that's filthy path. the same nasty to their cunning priests and pastors.
in their church which full of fake testimony like in the Bethany church and any other smimiliar churches, who misled many people.
ok let's see this:
What do we do with Evangelicals who 'want to help..?
By John Corvino, columnist
source: 365gay.com ; 10.29.2010 8:54am EDT
I’ve been engaging in quite a bit of dialogue lately with conservative Christians. It usually involves their asking me a question along the following lines:
“Look, we feel awful about the recent reports of gay teen suicides. We believe each of these kids is a child of God, deserving of love and respect, and we unequivocally condemn hateful speech and action against them.
“But we feel that gay-rights advocates are engaging in a kind of moral blackmail, telling us that either we give up our traditional Christian convictions about sex and marriage, or else we have these kids’ blood on our hands.
“Is it possible for us to join you in the fight for these kids’ welfare, even though we’re not prepared to renounce our traditional beliefs? Is it all or nothing?”
I wish this were an easy question. It’s worth reflecting on why it’s not.
On the one hand, I applaud anyone who truly wants to help LGBT kids. I’m not talking about the “Let’s cover our asses by making a suitable show of concern before we go right back to our usual attack” Christians, but about those who are sincerely empathetic. We need them as allies. (Remember, conservative Christians can have LGBT kids, too.)
On the other hand, we’re talking here about people who believe that gay physical affection is morally wrong, that dispositions toward it are disordered, and that God detests it as he detests all sin. Please let’s not sugarcoat it.
Thus there’s a point where these potential allies and I must part ways. I want to tell LGBT teens (and adults), THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU. That’s my message. And these folks can’t join it.
For over 18 years I’ve been giving my talk “What’s Morally Wrong with Homosexuality?” in which I counter common arguments against same-sex relationships. Some balk at the title, but I keep it for a simple reason: Gay people STILL grow up being taught that there’s something wrong with them. Many internalize this message, sometimes with tragic results.
We need to question it, expose its falsehood, and ultimately demolish it.
“Whoa,” my conservative Christian acquaintances will interrupt. “You’re talking about ‘demolishing’ something that we believe is revealed by God.” Yeah, I know. If that’s hard to hear, imagine hearing that your innermost romantic longings are fundamentally disordered.
At this point some object, “But I don’t think that these kids are ‘disordered.’ I don’t think there’s anything more wrong with these kids than with straight kids. We’re all sinners.”
Um, I thought we agreed not to sugarcoat.
Look, I understand that Christians think that we’re all sinners, that humanity is fallen, that straight people have a lot of disordered desires too.
But it doesn’t follow that certain orientations aren’t disordered relative to others. And any view that insists that all homosexual conduct is sinful logically entails that homosexual desires are (morally) disordered relative to heterosexual desires—and thus that there’s something wrong with gay people.
The Roman Catholic Church’s position is helpfully coherent (and characteristically un-sugarcoated) on this point: “Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.”
That view is harmful and wrong—indeed, it’s precisely the position I’ve spent the last two decades fighting—but it’s coherent.
So where does this leave us on the “all or nothing?” question? Is there NO sense in which conservative Christians and I can be allied in the fight for these kids?
I wouldn’t go that far. While I think that it’s important to acknowledge where we part ways, I also think there’s a good deal of collaborative work that can be done before we get to that point.
So when conservative Christians sincerely ask me what they can do to help, short of renouncing their convictions, here’s what I tell them.
I tell them not to expect me to stop critiquing those convictions, because I (like they) value truth and justice.
I tell them that they should turn up the volume on the “equal dignity” message and turn down the volume on the “no gay marriage” message. That doesn’t mean giving up what they believe. It does mean a change of emphasis (and one, incidentally, more consonant with the Gospel).
I tell them that if they really believe that homosexual conduct is no worse than heterosexual sins like premarital sex or divorce, they should behave accordingly in their relative reactions.
I tell them they should acknowledge openly the dissonance they feel in the face of love-filled same-sex romantic relationships, and to consider that God might be trying to teach them something in this dissonance.
I tell them to teach their kids why bullying is wrong, and to remind them in word and deed that they love them—no matter what.
I tell them to put their concern for LGBT people into action.
And when they do these things, I tell them thank you. Because when it comes to saving kids’ lives, I’ll work with what allies I can get.
Comment below – or discuss this in the forums!
John Corvino, Ph.D. is an author, speaker, and philosophy professor at Wayne State University in Detroit. His column “The Gay Moralist” appears Fridays.
For more about John Corvino, or to see clips from his “What’s Morally Wrong with Homosexuality?” DVD, visit www.johncorvino.com.
His next public lecture is at Lasell College (MA) on November 2.
so many priests in the chruch who are as the "opinion leader" become a provocator merely.
they hold the title of theology, but their talks in church just a satire and an insult to other religions. they are making a new stronghold, a new "non-aligned". which they are anti-other religion, anti-homosexual, anti-Islamic, anti-Buddhist, anti-everything but what their book say.
let's take a look at their life, whether they have been doing what they believe?
or they just take it as a shield only to denounce and to colonize the others,
like a dictator.
But sorry, the world is not blind like their book,
dont let such as the incidence of Giordano Bruno happened again in this era.
"go to hell such doctrine and their book"
because so many things in human life that need to observe, the further exploration,
not only from the outside but from the inside.
because until now there is still no definitive answer, to answer any human character for example, where it comes from fear? why do many people can be friends with one? while others can not? why many people like to smoke while some people are not at all?
even simple questions like this can not be answered properly, more over to talk about the human heart which is deep as the ocean.
their book can not answer this. all immersed in the word of "Secret".
well ok, theology is "reasoning or discussion concerning the Deity",
the science of God. as God says
"Don't worship any other god. GOD--his name is The-Jealous-One--is a jealous God.
message" exodus 34:14
he wants us to follow in the steps of Jews Deity, do not worship other Deity.
huh....! this is politic.
then i dont wanna believe in him anymore. that's filthy path. the same nasty to their cunning priests and pastors.
in their church which full of fake testimony like in the Bethany church and any other smimiliar churches, who misled many people.
ok let's see this:
What do we do with Evangelicals who 'want to help..?
By John Corvino, columnist
source: 365gay.com ; 10.29.2010 8:54am EDT
I’ve been engaging in quite a bit of dialogue lately with conservative Christians. It usually involves their asking me a question along the following lines:
“Look, we feel awful about the recent reports of gay teen suicides. We believe each of these kids is a child of God, deserving of love and respect, and we unequivocally condemn hateful speech and action against them.
“But we feel that gay-rights advocates are engaging in a kind of moral blackmail, telling us that either we give up our traditional Christian convictions about sex and marriage, or else we have these kids’ blood on our hands.
“Is it possible for us to join you in the fight for these kids’ welfare, even though we’re not prepared to renounce our traditional beliefs? Is it all or nothing?”
I wish this were an easy question. It’s worth reflecting on why it’s not.
On the one hand, I applaud anyone who truly wants to help LGBT kids. I’m not talking about the “Let’s cover our asses by making a suitable show of concern before we go right back to our usual attack” Christians, but about those who are sincerely empathetic. We need them as allies. (Remember, conservative Christians can have LGBT kids, too.)
On the other hand, we’re talking here about people who believe that gay physical affection is morally wrong, that dispositions toward it are disordered, and that God detests it as he detests all sin. Please let’s not sugarcoat it.
Thus there’s a point where these potential allies and I must part ways. I want to tell LGBT teens (and adults), THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU. That’s my message. And these folks can’t join it.
For over 18 years I’ve been giving my talk “What’s Morally Wrong with Homosexuality?” in which I counter common arguments against same-sex relationships. Some balk at the title, but I keep it for a simple reason: Gay people STILL grow up being taught that there’s something wrong with them. Many internalize this message, sometimes with tragic results.
We need to question it, expose its falsehood, and ultimately demolish it.
“Whoa,” my conservative Christian acquaintances will interrupt. “You’re talking about ‘demolishing’ something that we believe is revealed by God.” Yeah, I know. If that’s hard to hear, imagine hearing that your innermost romantic longings are fundamentally disordered.
At this point some object, “But I don’t think that these kids are ‘disordered.’ I don’t think there’s anything more wrong with these kids than with straight kids. We’re all sinners.”
Um, I thought we agreed not to sugarcoat.
Look, I understand that Christians think that we’re all sinners, that humanity is fallen, that straight people have a lot of disordered desires too.
But it doesn’t follow that certain orientations aren’t disordered relative to others. And any view that insists that all homosexual conduct is sinful logically entails that homosexual desires are (morally) disordered relative to heterosexual desires—and thus that there’s something wrong with gay people.
The Roman Catholic Church’s position is helpfully coherent (and characteristically un-sugarcoated) on this point: “Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.”
That view is harmful and wrong—indeed, it’s precisely the position I’ve spent the last two decades fighting—but it’s coherent.
So where does this leave us on the “all or nothing?” question? Is there NO sense in which conservative Christians and I can be allied in the fight for these kids?
I wouldn’t go that far. While I think that it’s important to acknowledge where we part ways, I also think there’s a good deal of collaborative work that can be done before we get to that point.
So when conservative Christians sincerely ask me what they can do to help, short of renouncing their convictions, here’s what I tell them.
I tell them not to expect me to stop critiquing those convictions, because I (like they) value truth and justice.
I tell them that they should turn up the volume on the “equal dignity” message and turn down the volume on the “no gay marriage” message. That doesn’t mean giving up what they believe. It does mean a change of emphasis (and one, incidentally, more consonant with the Gospel).
I tell them that if they really believe that homosexual conduct is no worse than heterosexual sins like premarital sex or divorce, they should behave accordingly in their relative reactions.
I tell them they should acknowledge openly the dissonance they feel in the face of love-filled same-sex romantic relationships, and to consider that God might be trying to teach them something in this dissonance.
I tell them to teach their kids why bullying is wrong, and to remind them in word and deed that they love them—no matter what.
I tell them to put their concern for LGBT people into action.
And when they do these things, I tell them thank you. Because when it comes to saving kids’ lives, I’ll work with what allies I can get.
Comment below – or discuss this in the forums!
John Corvino, Ph.D. is an author, speaker, and philosophy professor at Wayne State University in Detroit. His column “The Gay Moralist” appears Fridays.
For more about John Corvino, or to see clips from his “What’s Morally Wrong with Homosexuality?” DVD, visit www.johncorvino.com.
His next public lecture is at Lasell College (MA) on November 2.
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The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense, and fiction is the truth inside the lie,
There was never a good biography of a good novelist. There couldn't be. He is too many people if he's any good. To understand reality is not the same as to know about outward events. It is to perceive the essential nature of things and imagination is the living power also prime agent of all human perception.
The heart has its reasons which reason knows not of.
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